Sunday, March 26, 2006

The myth of teenage angst

Over at Victor Reppert’s fine blog, an atheist left this comment:

At 10:57 PM, Steven Carr said…

“'Prior to his conversion to Christianity: Craig was experiencing angst or existential despair.'

At what age was Craig baptised? :-)

Craig says he converted to Christianity as a teenage boy.

Teenage boys suffering angst or existential despair? How unusual!”

http://dangerousidea.blogspot.com/2006/03/craig-parsons-debate-1998.html#comments

Carr doesn’t say where he’s going with this, but the insinuation seems to be that Craig’s conversion was more emotional or hormonal than intellectual.

And presumably Carr is implicitly extending that dismissive analysis to teen conversions generally.

If so, I’d say the following:

i) From what I can tell, the cliché of adolescent angst is a piece of popular mythology. It has a basis in fact, but there is a gender differential.

In what I’ve read, while young men commit suicide at higher rates than young women, the latter attempt suicide at two-to-three times the rate of young men. Men attempt suicide far less often, but are far more efficient at killing themselves when they do try to take their own lives.

Young women are about nine times more likely to suffer from eating disorders than are young men.

And while substance abuse is about the same for both sexes, they drink and do drugs for different reasons. Again, young women are more likely to turn to drugs and alcohol to cope with low self-esteem.

In other words, the stereotype of adolescent angst has a basis in fact, but it’s not a general condition of adolescence. Rather, young women are far more likely to suffer from depression than are their male counterparts.

Hence, this is, at best, a highly lopsided explanation for teen conversion.

ii) Moreover, the reason Craig gave is that he thought life without God would be meaningless.

Now, if you think that life without God is pointless, and if you also don’t believe in God, then that’s a reason to be depressed. You espouse a depressing worldview.

It’s not depression that makes you suffer existential panic; rather, existential panic is what makes you depressed. A despairing outlook is the trigger for emotional despair, not vice versa.

iii) Finally, the reason that people are more likely to convert in their teens and twenties is because that is the time of life when they are coming of age and forming an adult self-image.

They have a life of their own. So they begin to ask themselves what’s the point of living, anyway?

By the very same token, this is also the time of life when people are more likely to deconvert.

They no longer identify so strongly with their parents, and so they work on their self-definition.

This is always the problem with atheistic attempts to explain away faith on psychological grounds.

For if that’s a valid analysis, then it’s a double-edged sword.

8 comments:

  1. Carr is a complete imbecile. I'm not surprised he responded the way he did - idiotically.

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  2. There can be no more depressing worldview than one that endorses the concept of "original sin".

    Consider also that Christianity is over-represented in prison populations and mental hospitals, but underrepresented among intellectual circles, nobel laureates, and academia. Consider also that religious belief is higher in areas where crime, divorce, and drug abuse are higher.

    Where can a lower self-esteem come from than from the person who says "Because of original sin I was born a worthless wretch, guilty since the moment I took my first breath." ?

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  3. There can be no more depressing worldview than one that endorses the concept of "original sin".

    I beg to differ. How about a worldview that claims that human beings exist as a result of a long, impersonal process of evolution, and are essentially no different than any mere animal; that they exist in a world where meaning is illusory, where neither good nor evil exists except in the delusions of our own minds, results of the interaction of material properties; to which there is no ultimate purpose nor final end? Driven along by blind nature, we exist only to die, and in death we are extinguished forever. This is what the atheistic worldview amounts to; it is only hidden behind the sugary coating of humanism and a naïve optimism.

    Consider also that Christianity is over-represented in prison populations and mental hospitals, but underrepresented among intellectual circles, nobel laureates, and academia. Consider also that religious belief is higher in areas where crime, divorce, and drug abuse are higher.

    Consider that blacks are over-represented in prison populations, but underrepresented among intellectual circles, Nobel laureates, and academia. Consider also that blacks are common in areas where crime, divorce, and drug abuse are higher. Correlation does not equal causation.

    Yet, consider still further the words of Paul: "For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God" (I Cor. 1:26–29).

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  4. JDB548,

    Dont think Ive never heard a protest like that from a Christian before. And dont think I have an answer.

    Note that I never claimed a direct causal link between religiosity and a well-behaved society. I would like to clear up and misconceptions you may have about my statements and claim right now that the causal force in my argument is not religion, but education. More education = better social behavior and less religion.

    So I have acknowledged your point, I have agreed with you that religion and good social behavior are correlative, and I have also shown that my argument is still valid regardless by providing a sufficient causal factor: education.

    Enjoy this link:

    http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm

    Furthermore, even the correlation between religion and good social behavior are damaging to Christianity. That is because Christianity claims that it is in itself a causal force for good social behavior, and this has been shown not to be the case.

    I also think its funny that Christianity claims to be a positive causal force for society, and when the evidence is presented that refutes that, the Chrsitians come running up to say "its only correlative and there is no causal connection!" Are they unaware that they are contradicting the claims of their theology within their very defense against this evidence?

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  5. Kyle,

    I beg to differ. How about a worldview that claims that human beings exist as a result of a long, impersonal process of evolution, and are essentially no different than any mere animal;

    Oh, so you dont think Homo Sapiens are animals? What kingdom do they fit in then, exactly?

    that they exist in a world where meaning is illusory,

    Oh, like the cartoon universe of Christianity?

    where neither good nor evil exists except in the delusions of our own minds, results of the interaction of material properties;

    As opposed to the third party nihilism that is Christianity? Where nothingat all exists except in the mind of a creator God?

    to which there is no ultimate purpose nor final end?

    Only an eternal static afterlife has no ultimate purpose nor final end. The universe has a purpose and a final end without a God indeed. And life will in all likelyhood play a vital role in the universes "final end".

    Driven along by blind nature, we exist only to die, and in death we are extinguished forever.

    We dont exist only to die. We exist to live. But yes, in death, we are extinguished forever. It wont be all THAT bad honestly, because you do know that there was a time before you were conceived when you didnt exist, right?

    Besides, in your Christian worldview, dont you exist only to serve? Arent you a slave? Id rather not exist than be an eternal slave.

    This is what the atheistic worldview amounts to; it is only hidden behind the sugary coating of humanism and a naïve optimism.

    Even if your exagerrations and strawmen were true, the atheistic universe would STILL be more optimistic than original sin; a guilty verdict before any individual crime was committed, a maniacal dictator-God who constantly has to destroy His own creation because he doesnt like the way He made them, and an eternal master-slave relationship where no escape is possible (FORGET the undreground railroad!), and your only hope of reducing the torture is to profess total allegiance - and give complete willing ownership of yourself - to your master.

    I imagine that if you found yourself in a hostage situation, you would be the first to start empathizing with your captors.

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  6. ...mere animal

    What is "mere" about an animal anyway?

    In a theistic universe, humans are "mere" humans, and animals are "mere" animals. Nothing can compare to God.

    But in an atheistic universe, humans are not "mere" humans, nor are animals "mere" animals. Instead, they are are all glorious beautiful living entities, in control of their own destiny, and celebrating the wonderful priceless experience that is life. They serve themselves and fulfill their OWN values the best they can, instead of fulfilling the values of an all-seeing all-knowing all-powerful big brother/God who exerts total slave ownership of everyone and everything.

    In a theistic universe, humans are "mere" humans. They are slaves.

    In an atheistic universe, humans are glorious humans. They are their own masters.

    Christianity, by its own doctrine, is doomed to lose the argument from self-esteem on every level, and from every angle.

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  7. Oh, so you dont think Homo Sapiens are animals? What kingdom do they fit in then, exactly?

    Human beings are not beasts. They are distinct from mere animals in being made in the image of God. It is not a matter of scientific taxonomy. When we say that someone "behaves like an animal" or is "treated like an animal," do we simply mean that he behaves as a human ought and is treated as a human ought? No. We mean that he is behaving in a manner beneath his stature as a human being, or being treated in a manner beneath his stature as a human being. The atheistic worldview reduces humans to the same level as every other animal—whether by raising animals up or casting man down, it makes not the slightest difference.

    Oh, like the cartoon universe of Christianity?

    "Cartoon universe"? Read the Book of Job.

    As opposed to the third party nihilism that is Christianity? Where nothingat all exists except in the mind of a creator God?

    Where do you get the idea that Christian belief is that nothing exists except in God's mind?

    We dont exist only to die. We exist to live.

    Different use of "only"—by which I meant the ultimate end of our existence.

    But yes, in death, we are extinguished forever. It wont be all THAT bad honestly, because you do know that there was a time before you were conceived when you didnt exist, right?

    Sophistry. Before we existed we had never known existence. The cessation of existence is not the same as a continual state of non-existence.

    Only an eternal static afterlife has no ultimate purpose nor final end.

    Ah, but yes it does: to glorify God.

    The universe has a purpose and a final end without a God indeed. And life will in all likelyhood play a vital role in the universes "final end".

    And what is its purpose and final end?

    Besides, in your Christian worldview, dont you exist only to serve? Arent you a slave? Id rather not exist than be an eternal slave.

    Not merely a servant and a slave, but a son of God, a brother of Christ, and a co-heir with the Lord of Universe.

    Even if your exagerrations and strawmen were true, the atheistic universe would STILL be more optimistic than original sin;

    Optimistic in what sense? Everything comes to absolute naught in the atheist's universe.

    a guilty verdict before any individual crime was committed,

    This is a complete misunderstanding of what original sin entails.

    a maniacal dictator-God who constantly has to destroy His own creation because he doesnt like the way He made them,

    This is a complete misunderstanding of what God's sovereignty, justice, and goodness entail.

    and an eternal master-slave relationship where no escape is possible (FORGET the undreground railroad!), and your only hope of reducing the torture is to profess total allegiance - and give complete willing ownership of yourself - to your master.

    And this is a complete misunderstanding of what submission to God entails.

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  8. In a theistic universe, humans are "mere" humans, and animals are "mere" animals. Nothing can compare to God.

    Yes, indeed, men are "mere" men, and animals are "mere" animals. But men are greater than animals, and God is greater than all.

    Instead, they are are all glorious beautiful living entities, in control of their own destiny, and celebrating the wonderful priceless experience that is life.

    How in control of their own destinies are they? Did they choose what sort of creature they should be, when they should be born, where they should live, what diseases should afflict them, what sustenance should be provided them, what family and friends should be available to them, what level of mental ability they should possess, what personality traits should distinguish them? This is the naïve optimism of which I spoke.

    They serve themselves and fulfill their OWN values the best they can

    Is Hitler a hero of yours? He certainly sought to serve himself and fulfill his own values as best he could. He was a slave to none! Truly a man in control of his own destiny, even to the point of determining the time of his death.

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